Nationals - 2013

Discuss specific race events, who is going, timing, etc

Moderator: Al Fernandez

koserv
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 am
Location: SE WI

Postby koserv » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:13 pm

:lol:
Kent Owens
Midwest CMC #30

koserv
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 am
Location: SE WI

Postby koserv » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Dude, take a deep breath. Relax. You did a hell of a job. You "SM" prepped a CMC car and drove the wheels off it. I'm jealous of both the car and the skill. Just using the wheel weight thing to illustrate the point. They pre made a decision to check a part, had the part in their hand, and still weren't entirely sure what they were checking. Happened last year too. Just happened to be your part.
Kent Owens

Midwest CMC #30

User avatar
BADVENM
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: Goodland, KS

Postby BADVENM » Sun Sep 08, 2013 3:36 pm

Luckily the dash rule was mentioned before the final race and not to dq for non compliance. ;)

You were all really fast and again congrats. I need to find 4 seconds a lap somewhere.
Last edited by BADVENM on Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
NASA Rocky Mountain - Camaro-Mustang Challenge car #8 Team Incidental Contact
3rd Place CMC - 2010 NASA National Championship
3rd Place CMC - 2015 NASA West Coast Championship PTB

User avatar
BADVENM
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: Goodland, KS

Postby BADVENM » Sun Sep 08, 2013 8:14 pm

Read here for the ruling on wheel weights 5 years ago, its the last post from Al himself:

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/f ... s&start=15
NASA Rocky Mountain - Camaro-Mustang Challenge car #8 Team Incidental Contact
3rd Place CMC - 2010 NASA National Championship
3rd Place CMC - 2015 NASA West Coast Championship PTB

koserv
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 am
Location: SE WI

Postby koserv » Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:33 am

Yeah, the infamous hole in the dash rule. Maybe next year we can get a memo before Nationals that specifies what's important (HP/Tq/wt), and what's not (everything else). Seems there's a few people that might have issues with that kind of tech scrutiny (everyone who's been DQ'ed for something other than dyno breakout).
Kent Owens

Midwest CMC #30

Sidney
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:09 pm
Location: Bloomington, IL

Postby Sidney » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:53 am

koserv wrote:Yeah, the infamous hole in the dash rule. Maybe next year we can get a memo before Nationals that specifies what's important (HP/Tq/wt), and what's not (everything else). Seems there's a few people that might have issues with that kind of tech scrutiny (everyone who's been DQ'ed for something other than dyno breakout).


I think the "What's Not Important" is how you guys were getting beat by 2 to 3 seconds a lap all week. The car that beat you was tweeked to the Nth degree (think SM type tweeking). If those Rules/Loopholes/Gray areas are not important...then the cost to race CMC just went way up.

Sidney
(DQ'd from 2011 Nationals race due to Brake Duct/Air Dam too low.)

p.s. Glenn...you'll have a PM soon.

User avatar
MHISSTC
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:44 pm
Location: Goodland, Kansas

Postby MHISSTC » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:21 am

Aaron and crew have a beautifully prepped car (except for the missing glove box door ;) ), and Aaron drove extremely well during the whole event and they all deserve the credit and accolades that go along with being the CMC National Champion.

Period.

That said, I will continue to explore the wheel weight rules issue in another thread.

EDIT: Added link to the thread.

http://www.camaromustangchallenge.com/f ... 8112#38112
Last edited by MHISSTC on Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Scott Lockhart
Team Incidental Contact
Sponsor - Hanksville Hotrods

User avatar
BADVENM
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: Goodland, KS

Postby BADVENM » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:41 am

Aaron, what kind of Enkei wheel were you running? Was it was 17x9 Enkei RPF-1?

Thanks.
NASA Rocky Mountain - Camaro-Mustang Challenge car #8 Team Incidental Contact
3rd Place CMC - 2010 NASA National Championship
3rd Place CMC - 2015 NASA West Coast Championship PTB

User avatar
MHISSTC
Posts: 1061
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:44 pm
Location: Goodland, Kansas

Postby MHISSTC » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:54 am

BADVENM wrote:Aaron, what kind of Enkei wheel were you running? Was it was 17x9 Enkei RPF-1?

Thanks.


go to the other thread for further discussion on this
Scott Lockhart

Team Incidental Contact

Sponsor - Hanksville Hotrods

suck fumes
Posts: 458
Joined: Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:21 pm

Postby suck fumes » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:05 am

For the record my dash was all covered Friday afternoon.
2013 CMC NATIONAL CHAMPION

Motorsportheaven.com

koserv
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2007 9:21 am
Location: SE WI

Postby koserv » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:14 am

It is certainly every competitors right to prep their car to the absolute letter of the rules. If you are comfortable running 0.00% from the line, then go for it. Aaron, from what little I could see, and probably proven by the wheel weight thing, had that car right at the limit, and boy did it show. My issues aren’t with someone prepping to 100.00%, it’s with how the limits are enforced. Regionally, we make allowances/exceptions all the time. The glove-box thing is a case in point. Most regions don’t enforce it and couldn’t care less. Also, for an item like that, making a call pre-race at Nationals to make an exception is clearly within the purview of the officials. They made that call this year. None of us made a stink about it. Done deal. No problems. I also don’t have much (some, but not much) problem with post race “fix it” items that are not performance related (the lexan side windows from a couple years ago). But…if you’re going to put a hard number in the rule book, then you’d better be prepared to check it properly, understand the rule, and enforce it accordingly. Conversely, if you’re a competitor running at 100.00% of a number delineated rule, you’d better understand what criteria are used to scrutinize, and that over the line is over the line. Period. Aaron’s wheels are getting a lot of attention, but the bottom line is the race officials found them compliant, and there were no protests. Done deal. I’ve been using them to make my points and, in my sleep deprived state Sunday, it just didn’t make any sense to me that competitors are required to file paperwork to get the officials to understand the rules and to do their jobs properly. After a full night’s sleep, it still doesn’t.
Kent Owens

Midwest CMC #30

User avatar
BADVENM
Posts: 375
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 4:00 pm
Location: Goodland, KS

Postby BADVENM » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:21 am

Well said Kent. Was "our" official Ed a CMC driver? He mentioned he was from the southeast region but I don't know what he does down there.

Tech is only doing what "our" officials tell them to do (what to tech, etc). Is it "our" officials that make the final call as to whether a teched item passes or fails or is it the head of tech? Tech doesn't carry around a rulebook for each race class so I would think it would be up to "our" official or representative. Like you said, it was different in that the racers in CMC were telling the officals what was legal and what was not. Shouldn't be that way.
NASA Rocky Mountain - Camaro-Mustang Challenge car #8 Team Incidental Contact
3rd Place CMC - 2010 NASA National Championship
3rd Place CMC - 2015 NASA West Coast Championship PTB

nape
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:50 pm
Location: In the garage

Postby nape » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:14 am

BADVENM wrote:Like you said, it was different in that the racers in CMC were telling the officals what was legal and what was not. Shouldn't be that way.


Hah, if I had a nickel...

This is supposed to be fun, This is supposed to be fun, This is supposed to be fun... :x
TJ Bain
Midwest AI #134
Midwest CMC #66

ShadowBolt
Posts: 373
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:23 am
Location: Georgetown, TX

Postby ShadowBolt » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:30 pm

Aaron is just good! Even without a car tweaked to the 9th degree he would have won. Aaron has not won every race in Texas since going CMC (I hit him the first weekend and tore the hell out of his new car) but he has won a bunch of them. Watch his in-car videos from the first weekend at the track with the CMC car (except the one where I ran over him). He is not working like the rest of us. He looks like he is going to pick up a loaf of bread at the corner store. He is never fighting with the steering wheel like the rest of us do. Unless he has changed it up he is running 3:27's or something like that in the rear because he does not like to shift that often. You would think he would get killed by the guys running 3:55's and 4:10's but he does not. I know you guys don't want to hear this but Aarons car is not the reason he won Nationals. He would have won in my Hooptie! He is just that good. Wish it was me and not him but.........

JJ

User avatar
adam_ginsberg
Posts: 1289
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2003 11:27 am
Location: SoCal

Postby adam_ginsberg » Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:55 pm

BADVENM wrote:Tech is only doing what "our" officials tell them to do (what to tech, etc). Is it "our" officials that make the final call as to whether a teched item passes or fails or is it the head of tech?


From my own experience as an RD and SD at the Nats, the tech'd items are decided and submitted to the NASA tech officials about a week prior to the event - sometimes sooner, sometimes a tad later. At least, that's how I've always done it. I don't know how/when it was done this year.

Tech does their job by scrutinizing and measuring what the RD and SD have given them to tech. If there is a questionable item, the RD and SD will make a final determination.

I can also tell you from too many years of experience that Todd will essentially pull some explanation out of his ass and provide an answer without looking in the rulebook. In most cases, when he does (you'd be very surprised to know how often it happens), he's wrong. It's bitten me in the ass, more than once. It is the #1 reason why I refuse to give a rules determination without having the rulebook in front of me.

BADVENM wrote:Tech doesn't carry around a rulebook for each race class so I would think it would be up to "our" official or representative.


The tech officials don't "carry around" a rulebook. However, there is a very large binder in the tech impound area that has ALL of the rules for EVERY class, as well as the current NASA CCRs. NASA SoCal has those binders in impound, as does NASA NorCal. It's ALWAYS been there at the Nats. Competitors are welcome to view that binder any time. Although, the impound area of the Nats, particularly after the Championship race gets busy, hectic and crowded. Having your own rulebook in impound is highly recommended.


Return to “Event Specific”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests