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supermac
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Location: Castle Rock, Co

Postby supermac » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:03 pm

I drove one of our regions sn-95's this weekend and Tommy drove a fox.
We both came back saying the same thing, these things turn way better than our cars. And both had serious flaws on the engine side.
I ran a second faster than the owner ever had, I'm not sure where Tommy ended up. The owner of the car I drove has repeatedly told me the series is broken yet his car is not even close to fully prepped?
When I went to nationals last year and ran with the S-197's at Road Atlanta, I decided that those were great cars and I also decided to redouble my efforts on car prep to beat them.
I could have given up on the 4th gen and built one of those.
I wasn't ready at that time and it would have been disengenious for me to bitch about them at that time. We are going to throw everything at them this year and see where we land.
Micheal I have ran against you several times and from my POV your car really works and you are one hell of a driver.
I can't tell you how many times I have heard " I got a fox for free in a field"
Guys didn't end up in thier cars by accident or at gun point.
When I chose a 4th gen back in '06 it was because everybody here was running them, mostly in AI but still running them.
We have learned so much about them along the way, mostly from guys like Glenn and Mitch.
I know that the guys running in the front of our region are stupid serious about winning and leave nothing on the table.
I don't really have a point to all of this other than to share my story and POV.

Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:33 pm

TX#11CMC wrote:
Glenn wrote:
TX#11CMC wrote:
Glenn wrote:Equal how? Equal from the perspective of a ruler or equal from the perspective of on track performance? I need to know cause those are two very different things.

There are reasons the 4th gen has more wins that the other platforms combined. One is that there are a lot of 4th gens racing throughout the nation.

Ask yourself this question. Why are there so many 4th gens racing?
Production numbers show there were way more 3rd gens built than 4th gens. Way more Mustangs built than 4th gens. Yet 4th gens dominate many regions.
I do credit the number of 4th gens to people like yourself building them and pushing them in TX, Tommy Cody and Raybob building and pushing them in CO.

When asked the question, "What platform is best to race in CMC?" the answer should be, "Which ever one you want."
I wouldn't be able to give that answer, would you?


If parity was the only factor in picking a car for CMC, I could answer "anyone you want". But it isn't. Do you like Fords or Chevy is a big one. Of the 2, whick ones do you know well if at all? If one needed to pick a car that was as close to CMC limits as possible right off the street, I would surely say 4th gen for the GM fans. Add to that the price point of the car (last produced in 2002 - 10 years ago!) and it is a win/win for the GM. The Fords are not as simple, but the SN-99 should be just as popular. Not sure why it isnt though.
ANone wanting to build an older platform will likely need to round up alot of parts. That is a strike against the Fox and 3rd gens for sure and possibly the SN-95. I think the SN-95 is the best Ford to start with.

Let me rephrase...
Assume each car can be built to their platform limit for the same amount of $$ and you could snap your fingers and have the finished product in front of you.

Now...
When asked the question, "What platform is best to race in CMC?" the answer should be, "Which ever one you want."
I wouldn't be able to give that answer, would you?


Yes I would. You have beat me plenty. I've beat you plenty. Seems you have bested me as of late more than I have you. My car is the same as it has been since about 2007. Can you say that about yours? Did you get better or did the car get better as you modded it and max'ed it?
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TX#11CMC
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Postby TX#11CMC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:13 pm

I agree with your points Cody (if you even had one :wink: ).
I am just very passionate about this sport, my car, my driving, etc. I hope my points aren't coming off the wrong way but I feel strongly about an issue and wouldn't feel right if I didn't share my opinion. Same way as I have no issue with others pushing back on my opinions, they feel just as strongly about theirs.

I understand every car is going to have its strength and weakness and that is what makes the series work. There is also a wide range of cost associated w/ building a Mustang vs. Camaro, 5.0L vs. 4.6L, LT1 vs 305, etc.

I guess my main frustration is that when "I" look around I see a common platform rising to the top. I see people coming into the series going to that platform and I see others switching to that platform. I want people coming into the series to make their decision on what platform to race be based on their wants, not which platform gives them the best chance of winning.
I know perception doesn't change rules but there is a lot of it floating around out there. :)

*edit*
Nice signature Glenn, haha.
To answer your question, I'd hope both my car and my driving has gotten better since 07. I have changed many things since then.
Not sure your point but I agree you and I have been pretty darn equal for a few years now. Except for Hallett, I hear you have troubles with the Bitch. :wink:
Last edited by TX#11CMC on Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Michael Mosty
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Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:26 pm

I want people coming into the series to make their decision on what platform to race be based on their wants, not which platform gives them the best chance of winning.


I agree w/ this 100%. I also think we have this now except the cost to get to equality is not equal. That just cannot be helped. Older platforms are the ones that get the short end of the stick in this area. Technology will always advance. You have a few options, keep w/ you got and mod along as you need to, or re-tool. If I had a Fox, I would have re-tooled to an SN-95 long ago. From what I know, it is just a chassis swap.
A path forward to older platforms is a goal. It is far better than forcing ones hand to upgrade.
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Postby TX#11CMC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:43 pm

Glenn wrote:
I want people coming into the series to make their decision on what platform to race be based on their wants, not which platform gives them the best chance of winning.


I agree w/ this 100%. I also think we have this now except the cost to get to equality is not equal. That just cannot be helped. Older platforms are the ones that get the short end of the stick in this area. Technology will always advance. You have a few options, keep w/ you got and mod along as you need to, or re-tool. If I had a Fox, I would have re-tooled to an SN-95 long ago. From what I know, it is just a chassis swap.
A path forward to older platforms is a goal. It is far better than forcing ones hand to upgrade.

If you had a Fox, why would you feel the need to move to an SN95? If they were equal there would be no advantage in changing.
-Michael Mosty
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"Fox" driver and lovin it!!!
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Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:03 pm

No fender mod's needed to fit 17's. Track width was set based off OEM fender clearance. That alone is enough for me. This would take no more than a $100 bare tub and $400 in cage tube and a couple weekends. You easily got that in fender mods to date and more yet to come.

Are you now saying the Fox and SN-95 are not equal (performance wise)?
I assume so since you said "IF".
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MHISSTC
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Postby MHISSTC » Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:08 pm

Glenn wrote:This would take no more than a $100 bare tub and $400 in cage tube and a couple weekends.


WOW! I need to shop where you shop and I need to acquire some cage fabrication skills so I don't have to hire all that safety gear installation work done. Add another zero to the end of your numbers and I think that would be more realistic for most folks are able to find.

edit: don't SN-95s still need a little fender massaging to get to max width?
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TX#11CMC
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Postby TX#11CMC » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:17 am

Glenn, I have no problem b/w Fox + SN95. I just said "IF" b/c I thought you were saying they were not equal with the thought of switching to the SN95.
From a $$ standpoint (and timewise), I'd much rather fabricate fender flares than build a new tub. Plus I have a tight bond with my old girl.

I am very pleased w/ the time, $$, and final product of the fronts but now I need to tackle the rears. With what I want to do, I'm guessing to do it right will take about 10 hours / side. That'll give me a project for the offseason.
-Michael Mosty
TX region #11
"Fox" driver and lovin it!!!
Texas Region - CMC Director

cf03gt
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Postby cf03gt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:46 pm

supermac wrote: The owner of the car I drove has repeatedly told me the series is broken yet his car is not even close to fully prepped?

Sounds all too familiar.. :lol: (didnt hear it from you, just heard it before myself)

[/quote="supermac"] When I went to nationals last year and ran with the S-197's at Road Atlanta, I decided that those were great cars and I also decided to redouble my efforts on car prep to beat them.
I could have given up on the 4th gen and built one of those.
I wasn't ready at that time and it would have been disengenious for me to bitch about them at that time. We are going to throw everything at them this year and see where we land.
[/quote]

Cody, you were in contention for a win at Road Atlanta last year. Think that missed shift (that took you from 2nd to 4th place) is the only thing that kept you off top spots on the podium. Not your car. You and I were running w/in a 1/10th second there all weekend if I remember right.
We were all still on 275's.

Its going to be a battle of the 4th gens at the front this year at Nats.. It is the platform to "have". . I agree with Michaels (as well as most others I spoke with in the series) sentiments.
But thats good news for the rest of us. The 4th gen guys will be on 235 tires by next season :P
Last edited by cf03gt on Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-Chris
CMC #14

Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:49 pm

Seems appropriate here:
http://aicmctexas.com/main/showthread.p ... rity/page2

See post number 16 by Al F.
Looking forward to folks thoughts on what they see in the data.
Texas Region AI/CMC Series Director

Inferior Driver, Superior Platform…. since 2005.

cf03gt
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Location: Charleston, SC

Postby cf03gt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:04 pm

I've been "banned" (so it says when I try register/sign in) at the link. Any way to post it here Glenn? Thanks
-Chris

CMC #14

Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:56 pm

This should take you to the zip file.

http://aicmctexas.com/main/attachment.p ... 1344565999
Texas Region AI/CMC Series Director

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cf03gt
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Postby cf03gt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:11 pm

Nope. Still taking me to the site's log in page. Not giving me "permission to view document"
-Chris

CMC #14

Glenn
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Postby Glenn » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:27 pm

Can't help ya. No way to attach file to this site and I have not place to host it.

Email me? Addy on the back of the CMC rules.
Texas Region AI/CMC Series Director

Inferior Driver, Superior Platform…. since 2005.

cf03gt
Posts: 100
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 6:58 am
Location: Charleston, SC

Postby cf03gt » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:33 pm

Thanks Glenn
-Chris

CMC #14


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