fire system safety pins, in or out during race?

Questions and answers about CMC and NASA rules

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cozog
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Postby cozog » Thu Dec 19, 2013 5:40 am

TX#11CMC wrote:How many people race with the pin pulled from their handheld fire bottle?


I do, and after almost setting my car on fire (grass under it was burning), I'd never run with pins in. What if you bend the pin while racing/crashing or getting the bottle out of the car? I know it's a very small chance of happening, but those few extra seconds of dicking around with a pin could be the difference between a burnt carcass of a car or just a shortened race.
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Postby MHISSTC » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:44 pm

TX#11CMC wrote:I am a little confused as to why the big deal if someone runs with their fire system pinned or not.
Running a fire system is not a requirement, it is an option. I don't have a fire system in my car so I don't even have the option to "pull a pin". From a legality standpoint, I don't see a problem.

From a personal choice standpoint, well that is a personal choice.

How many people race with the pin pulled from their handheld fire bottle?


The intent wasn't to make this into a big deal, but I wanted to hear other's opinions about it.

I've installed both fire extinguishers and AFFF fire systems and have been fortunate enough so far in that I have not needed to use either. All of the instructions I have found with the fire systems clearly state the safety pin should be removed before track operation, so that has been my method of operation. I assumed others would follow the manufacturers instructions similarly.

A person may argue that the statement to remove the safety pin is merely put into the instructions to limit the liability of the manufacturer in case the person is somehow unable to operate the system because they forgot about the pin, but the choice to use it or not is still up to the user. My response to that is if there is a way to misuse a product, folks will always find a way to do it. If the manufacturer has to put a statement in the instructions to limit their liability, then there clearly must have been folks who have done it. I don't want to be one of those folks, so I remove the pin.

Fire system or fire extinguisher, my opinion is still that the pin should be pulled for track time.
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Supercharged111
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Postby Supercharged111 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:09 pm

Honestly I'd never given much thought to the pin being in or out (again, not building a car biting me in the ass like with the whole dash thing), but this does remind me that I want to add a fire extinguisher to the mix too. The car's light enough as it is. I suppose creating a pre/post race checklist is something I should consider, up until now I've just been checking stuff at the track as it crosses my mind. I'm quite thorough before I get to the track though.
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Postby MHISSTC » Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:08 pm

Supercharged111 wrote:Honestly I'd never given much thought to the pin being in or out (again, not building a car biting me in the ass like with the whole dash thing), but this does remind me that I want to add a fire extinguisher to the mix too. The car's light enough as it is. I suppose creating a pre/post race checklist is something I should consider, up until now I've just been checking stuff at the track as it crosses my mind. I'm quite thorough before I get to the track though.


If you're really serious about it, actually having written checklists for everything will keep you from having mental lapses and prevent you from leaving anything important out. Develop your checklists over time. As you think of something, write it out and add, subtract, and combine steps as you think of them and they become relevant or irrelevant. Once developed and used for a period of time, don't assume you've done them enough times to have them memorized and stop using them. There's a reason pilots, NASA (the real NASA), and real race teams use checklists all the time, every time.
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Supercharged111
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Postby Supercharged111 » Fri Dec 20, 2013 8:13 am

MHISSTC wrote:If you're really serious about it, actually having written checklists for everything will keep you from having mental lapses and prevent you from leaving anything important out. Develop your checklists over time. As you think of something, write it out and add, subtract, and combine steps as you think of them and they become relevant or irrelevant. Once developed and used for a period of time, don't assume you've done them enough times to have them memorized and stop using them. There's a reason pilots, NASA (the real NASA), and real race teams use checklists all the time, every time.


We live and die by the checklist in my line of work too, but I'd never felt the need to generate one for the track. things are different now, and details are becoming more important. Having a system is the only way to save me from myself, would you mind if I bothered you for your checklist to see things I might not have considered?
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Postby MHISSTC » Sat Apr 12, 2014 8:40 am

Supercharged111 wrote:...would you mind if I bothered you for your checklist to see things I might not have considered?


I never got back to you on this.
With a little online searching, you'll find several versions of these out there different places. Below is a link to ones that are better than anything we currently use. Develop/modify your own based one something like these and you'll be better off than most.

http://www.aicmctexas.com/showthread.ph ... ssis-Sheet
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