2019 RCR #8

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Supercharged111
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby Supercharged111 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:45 pm

If you don't have a ram air intake then this shouln't be a concern. The 2 places I've ever been have the fans low and point them at the radiator, not the air intake. If IAT is different between the dyno and the track it could have an effect, but we've already been living with that all this time so I'm not particularly concerned about capturing that. You'd basically need a dyno-specific cheater intake for that, but if your intake is anything but stock that's already captured on the dyno sheet so you'd be stuck racing with it.

So here's the latest and greatest taking Pete's wording into account. I think we may have something here.

6.21.5 Any air filter or air filter assembly may be fitted and OE assemblies may be modified. Air boxes and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location. Air filter installations that appear to create a ram air effect shall be subject to verification per rule 7.7. For the purposes of the rules, a ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a location on the exterior of the car and is ducted and sealed from that source all the way to the engine. Ducting that appears to be sealed when the hood is closed or has small leaks or bleeds will be considered sealed.
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby Al Fernandez » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:04 pm

So what is a small leak or bleed? What is unsealed? A pinhole? A 1/16” día hole? 1/4” día hole? A 1/16” gap around the comical air filter circumference?
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby MHISSTC » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:53 pm

Why would a person want to modify an OE assembly?

Are we talking about one particular assembly with a very specific modification, or is the intent to just allow any and all do what they want as long as it all resides inside the engine bay and doesn't look like it provides any ram air effect?

Very early on in building our car we had a huge aftermarket cone air filter assembly installed inside the engine bay. We assumed with it's large size and wide open design compared to the stock airbox it would make more power. Just for fun we did a dyno run with the stock box to see just how much better the aftermarket one was. We were humbled to find out the OEM airbox and cheap paper air filter actually produced more power than the supposedly better cone filter. I guess Ford knew what they were doing and we kept the OEM airbox in place after that.

Anybody else have any similar stories about OE vs. aftermarket assemblies they want to share?
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby Supercharged111 » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:27 am

Al Fernandez wrote:So what is a small leak or bleed? What is unsealed? A pinhole? A 1/16” día hole? 1/4” día hole? A 1/16” gap around the comical air filter circumference?


To me those are all bleeds/leaks. How about we define a square inch measurement that suffices as a legal bleed? Call it 3 square inches or a 2" diameter hole? Bigger? The exact number would require data, but a WAG of a 2" hole seems like more than enough in my mind. Super easy to police too.

Scott my car didn't some with a stock airbox and I suspect others may be in my shoes. The LT boxes aren't falling off of trees, though I'm sure I could find one if I really wanted to. The point of all of this is to simply clarify the rule as it is now so there's less grey area especially when it comes to a cold air intake vs ram air because of peoples' varying perceptions.

Still pretty concise.

6.21.5 Any air filter or air filter assembly may be fitted and OE assemblies may be modified. Air boxes and filters must reside inside the engine compartment or in the OEM stock location. Air filter installations that appear to create a ram air effect shall be subject to verification per rule 7.7. For the purposes of the rules, a ram air intake shall be defined as one that sources its air from a location on the exterior of the car and is ducted and sealed from that source all the way to the engine. Ducting that appears to be sealed when the hood is closed or has leaks or bleeds smaller than 3 square inches total will be considered sealed.
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby BryanL » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:44 pm

Al Fernandez wrote:what if we just allow ram air? Make 6.21.5 simply state that any air filter or air filter assembly and ducting upstream of the TB/Carb may be used. Isnt that the easiest to police?


Is this reverse psychology? Why would we even consider allowing people to spend $250-500 on an aftermarket ram air kit or more for a custom built setup?
I thought most of our rules were designed to close loopholes instead of allowing more things to be exploited?

I still say add that it's illegal to have a ram air or cold air intake. I also suggest that we not be able to remove the headlights for a duct (period) and especially for one that allow you to duct air towards the air filter.

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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby MHISSTC » Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:22 am

BryanL wrote:I also suggest that we not be able to remove the headlights for a duct (period) and especially for one that allow you to duct air towards the air filter.


Would I be allowed to removed a headlight and cover it with hardware cloth for the purpose of providing an inlet for brake cooling ducting?
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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby blk96gt » Mon Oct 22, 2018 12:05 pm

MHISSTC wrote:
BryanL wrote:I also suggest that we not be able to remove the headlights for a duct (period) and especially for one that allow you to duct air towards the air filter.


Would I be allowed to removed a headlight and cover it with hardware cloth for the purpose of providing an inlet for brake cooling ducting?

I have a duct going from my headlight cover to my oil cooler which is on the opposite side of my intake. Would you want this against the rules?

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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby BryanL » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:19 am

blk96gt wrote:
MHISSTC wrote:
BryanL wrote:I also suggest that we not be able to remove the headlights for a duct (period) and especially for one that allow you to duct air towards the air filter.


Would I be allowed to removed a headlight and cover it with hardware cloth for the purpose of providing an inlet for brake cooling ducting?

I have a duct going from my headlight cover to my oil cooler which is on the opposite side of my intake. Would you want this against the rules?


That's what the (period) meant. Yes, our class was designed to be stock appearing and removing the headlight covers goes against this. There are other areas available for brake ducts I believe but again that isn't required. With stoptechs I don't think brake ducts are needed and I also believe that most brake duct setups on our cars don't do that much.

Yes, I would want your headlight duct for your oil cooler to be against the rules. Again you have other areas for air or you can put a fan on the cooler like others have done. Of course you don't have to run an oil cooler like plenty of others. My understanding for your platform is there aren't any issues with overheating even with a cheap factory replacement radiator.

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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby blk96gt » Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:51 am

BryanL wrote:That's what the (period) meant. Yes, our class was designed to be stock appearing and removing the headlight covers goes against this. There are other areas available for brake ducts I believe but again that isn't required. With stoptechs I don't think brake ducts are needed and I also believe that most brake duct setups on our cars don't do that much.

Yes, I would want your headlight duct for your oil cooler to be against the rules. Again you have other areas for air or you can put a fan on the cooler like others have done. Of course you don't have to run an oil cooler like plenty of others. My understanding for your platform is there aren't any issues with overheating even with a cheap factory replacement radiator.

Headlight covers weren't stock. Headlights were stock. I'm not removing a headlight cover, I'm adding a hole to the cover to duct air to the oil cooler.
You want brake ducts even with StopTechs.

Of course I don't have to run an oil cooler, but I have one because I don't want 300+degF oil temps.

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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby BryanL » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:40 am

blk96gt wrote:
BryanL wrote:That's what the (period) meant. Yes, our class was designed to be stock appearing and removing the headlight covers goes against this. There are other areas available for brake ducts I believe but again that isn't required. With stoptechs I don't think brake ducts are needed and I also believe that most brake duct setups on our cars don't do that much.

Yes, I would want your headlight duct for your oil cooler to be against the rules. Again you have other areas for air or you can put a fan on the cooler like others have done. Of course you don't have to run an oil cooler like plenty of others. My understanding for your platform is there aren't any issues with overheating even with a cheap factory replacement radiator.

Headlight covers weren't stock. Headlights were stock. I'm not removing a headlight cover, I'm adding a hole to the cover to duct air to the oil cooler.
You want brake ducts even with StopTechs.

Of course I don't have to run an oil cooler, but I have one because I don't want 300+degF oil temps.


Huh? The headlight cover is the factory headlight with the guts behind it removed. Then the rules say to run a facsimile and maintain a stock external appearance. A mesh covered cooling duct doesn't meet the stock appearing criteria in my world. I also don't consider chicken wire to either be mesh or stock appearing. What kind of mesh cover are you running? Do you think it's stock appearing?

Your legal and I wouldn't worry about it. But you seem to be wanting the hole in the cover so you can duct air to an oil cooler which isn't required. It's like complaining about not being able to run a custom differential cover on my Ford 9". As others have done in the past you can come up with a different solution and maybe it would be better. What does your data show when running with and without the cooler? How does the data look if you moved the cooler in front of your radiator. Whats the size and quality of the cooler. What are the oil temps on the other cars like yours and what do they do? (No need to answer as I don't care)

I wish brake ducts were the reason I'm never on the podium. But since acquiring this car with stoptechs and weighing over 3,350 I have never experienced an issue without brake ducts. Just don't ask for a blower to be allowed to cool your brake ducts but your welcome to use the same blower on the windshield.

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Re: 2019 RCR #8

Postby MHISSTC » Thu Oct 25, 2018 1:25 pm

Does this exterior maintain a stock appearance?

We don't run Stoptechs and we absolutely need to use ducting to our OEM Cobra 13" rotors and dual piston caliper setup in the front.

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